"You don't say no to that."

WEBVTT - This file has cues.

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Hey, how are you?
I mean, is there anything worse

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than being asked how you are and
having to pretend that you're fine?

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Well, you don't have to pretend here.
Have you heard of the term life

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quake?
In this podcast,

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we talk about life quakes,
those unpredictable seismic shifts

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that in time can lead to profound
personal growth and empowerment.

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Throughout this season, you can
expect heartfelt conversations

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that reveal both the joy and the
discomfort of unexpected change.

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And I think you're going to like
it here.

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My name is Sean,
and this is something shifted.

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Today's story belongs to Liesel.
The opportunity we got on the other

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side of the world was to give up
everything here in South Africa

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and move to Sweden. That's next.

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I lead a demanding lifestyle and I'm
very guilty of wanting more for less.

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Especially when it comes to food.
I want to feel like I'm eating

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restaurant food,
but I don't want to leave my house.

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I want to try new flavors,
but I also don't want to spend

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money on ingredients that I
might never use again.

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And let's be honest, I don't want to
eat the same thing over and over,

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but I really don't have time to
think about what we're going to

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eat for dinner every night.
You know what I mean?

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Well,
you cook changed all of that for us.

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We choose what we want to eat.
And you cook delivers all of the

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ingredients,
perfectly portioned right to my door.

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No more standing in queues to
weigh my fresh produce.

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No more impulse buys sneaking
their way into my trolley.

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You cook is always adding new recipes
to choose from, and I've even

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picked up some new skills thanks to
those easy to follow recipe cards.

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You cook has been an absolute
game changer for us because

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everything is just so simple.
I love the convenience.

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I love the variety and the
flexibility to go carb conscious

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meals for one week.
And then when Rose folks come to

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stay, we might switch to fan
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Everything on the website looks
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lunchboxes, pizza, wine.
They've got it all and you can

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have it all to go to your
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That's right shifters.
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something shifted listeners,
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If you're a longtime listener to
something shifted, welcome back.

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And if it's the first time
you're here.

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This is episode six of our third
season, and so far we've heard

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about unexpected events that
significantly shifted the course

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of people's lives, like the heart
wrenching loss of a father.

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Or receiving difficult news that
you need a second organ transplant.

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The type of life quake that
lands like a gut punch you just

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weren't ready for and leaves you
breathless and vulnerable.

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Somewhere in that chaos and
uncertainty.

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There's a surprising sense of
freedom.

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Standing at the crossroad you
didn't choose for yourself,

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you have a chance to make the best of
a situation that was thrust upon you.

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And then there are seismic shifts
that we create for ourselves.

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I would say the live quake that
changed me most recently wasn't

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actually something that happened
to me, something that was out of

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my control or something that we
chose and that that life quake

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came in the form of opportunity.
And then you have to choose

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whether to take it or not.
But it's it was our choice.

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In the adventures we seek out for
ourselves or the chances that we

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say yes to, we know that things
will change, but we never really

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know how much they will change.
An enthusiastic yes today will

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obviously start a domino effect, but
where will the yes ultimately lead?

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You cannot know all of the
ramifications of your choices,

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and there were definitely a few
moments where I was like, why did

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I choose this? This is too hard.
Can't do it. I want to go home.

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For Liesel and her husband, Anton.
Home was Cape Town, South Africa.

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I grew up in Cape Town.
Anton grew up in Pretoria, but we

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had both been living in Cape Town
for 15 years or so before we left.

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Yeah, so there was a lot of
infrastructure here.

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And part of that infrastructure was
their beautiful blue Victorian row

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house in Woodstock that they had
renovated and truly made their own.

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This was the first house their
son Noah would call home.

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Now, there are three things that
you need to know about the

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chambers to appreciate the
gravity of their move to Sweden.

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Firstly,
the jobs loved living in Woodstock.

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It's your hometown, so you know it.
You know what? Every back street.

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You know where you like to eat.
You know and you like to drink

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coffee.
You know where to get everything.

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It was just like,
now I realize it was a wealth of

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knowledge that I just carried in
my in my head all the time.

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Now, the second thing you need
to know is that in 2021,

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both Liesel and Anton had very
successful careers in the science

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and tech industries respectively.
Liesel had climbed the ranks

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while working at the same
company for more than a decade.

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And when you have that kind of
experience where you're seeing

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the same people every day,
they become your people.

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They become your friends.
There's the people that you

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spend the most time with.
I didn't realize how much I

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would miss and mourn that family
when I'd left that job.

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To me, a job was never a job.
It's you.

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It's it's what you're doing with
your time.

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And what you're doing with your time
is the most precious thing you have,

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actually. So job is important.
And both of us had to give ours up.

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But giving up a job wasn't the
only important thing.

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You see,
the opportunity to relocate abroad

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came about at the start of 2021.
Noah was almost three years old.

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He was already showing signs of
being the coolest little dude ever.

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And I'm not just saying that
because he's my godson.

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Which brings me to the third thing
you should know about the bears.

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They're a big part of our story.
You see, Liesel is more than

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just Rue's best friend.
They're each other's person and

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have been woven into the tapestry
of each other's lives since 2004.

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They studied at university together,
organized each other's

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bachelorette parties.
Helped each other into their

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respective wedding dresses.
They've held each other up in

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good times and in bad.
And as families,

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we've grown up together.
Whenever Zoe landed in hospital,

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the two bears were the ones we
called first.

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They were the ones who sat with us
in the ER waiting rooms at 3:00 in

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the morning. No questions asked.
They were just always there.

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So with them leaving South Africa,
it's been a big change for all of us.

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Even Noah, even though he was
only three when they left.

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I mean, he would sometimes asked,
when are we going to grandma's house?

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Or when are we going to go see Omar?
And then we'd explain where we live

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in Sweden now, and they're 10,000km
away in South Africa, and we have a

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big map up on our dining room wall.
And we put a pin on where Omar

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loves and where grandma loves.
And then and this is where we love.

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He could understand that it's
that it's far to go.

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And we'll see them next year or
we'll see them soon.

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So he when I'm sad and he's like,
I'm sad because I miss Auntie Roo.

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And then he would say,
I know it's okay. I miss her too.

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And then we both feel better.
I teach him like it's okay to

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feel sad.
In all of his four year old wisdom at

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the time, he's been helping us deal.
Noah turned 6 in 2024, and we had the

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joy of spending almost four weeks
with our dear friends of the 2024

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festive period in sunny South Africa.
There was one particularly warm

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day which Noah described as
scorching hot.

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So, with the benefit of three years
of hindsight, I asked Liesl again.

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So why did you choose to move?
So let me just dispel the higher

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pay cheque right now.
Moving to Europe does not mean you're

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going to get paid more, because
you also have to live in Europe.

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So it wasn't it wasn't money.
We weren't moving away from

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something. We loved it year.
Loved a house.

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We're close to family, friends.
Um, my nonprofit that I started

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was taking off doing well.
Uh, we'd managed we got out on

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the other side of Covid.
It I there was no good reason to go.

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It was something that we were talked
about ideally and dreamt about,

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like what it would be like to
live in a different country for

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a while and imagine the things
that we could see and experience.

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And we traveled a lot before then.
So it really was naively as an

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adventure.
My husband got an opportunity to

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work at a synchrotron in Europe,
and you don't say no to that,

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to raise your child in a different
society, to see so many things.

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Because all I've known all my life
was Cape Town and South Africa,

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right?
It was exciting, and I guess a

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part of me felt honored.
We also have our ducks in a row.

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We were moving.
And with that,

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the Jabez boarded the plane bound
for Sweden in November of 2021,

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leaving behind work, their home,
family, friends and a balmy South

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African summer to arrive in the snow
dusted university town of Lunt.

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And this would be their new home.
It was almost Christmas and it

00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:25.150
was magical.
And I think in that first like

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two like month and a half,
you kind of feel touristy.

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So you eat, you try everything
and you taste everything.

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It is new vegetation,
new temperatures, new birdsong.

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Because they don't have the same
birds that we do.

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So there's no hodeidah, just the
sounds in the trees or different,

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um, beautiful but different.
And new shops, new Food.

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New smells. New color palettes.
New housing structures.

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New road infrastructure.
Driving on the new side of the road.

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New transport systems.
New is wonderful and exciting.

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New is adventure.
And when everything your senses

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encounter is new,
it can also be exhausting.

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I woke up to the shortest days
I've ever experienced in my life.

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So sunrise at 930, sunset at 330.
And it went on like that for for

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two months.
It was also jarring, like the first

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time your your son gets a flu and you
walk into a pharmacy and you cannot

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read the labels on any medication.
And so first, that was the first

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sort of time where I felt like,
I can't do this.

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I can't take care of my son.
How do I do this?

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Like, there's so much new things
that your brain is completely

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occupied the whole time with taking
things in that you don't have

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any more capacity really, to do
the things that you normally do.

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And everything became was harder in
that time, like like cooking basic.

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And you know, I'm a good cook,
but like I struggled like, okay,

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now what do I need for Bolognaise
again? Onions, tomato in a can.

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Okay. I can find that I can.
This must be a picture on or a

00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:34.130
section in the shop.
You know garlic you need.

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What's it called in Swedish wheat.
Look. What the hell is that?

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I know I said there were three
things you needed to know,

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but they're actually full.
Liesel is a really, really good cook.

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I was struggling to do the basics
because you have to shop in Swedish.

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You have to use your translate
app all the time.

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What a shop would normally take me
ten minutes here to 45 minutes.

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So I guess there was a bit of a
fatigue that set in,

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and I realized that I if normally
all could do 100 things a day,

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I probably I would scale that
down to I can do 25 things a day.

00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:24.550
Uh, that's kind of the the
downshifting of my gears.

00:14:24.550 --> 00:14:31.780
I had to do as a, a mum, a scientist,
a parent, a wife, sister, friend.

00:14:32.020 --> 00:14:35.800
And you can see where the 100
things come in with all of those

00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:40.600
roles that we play.
But I could do 25%, I think because

00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:44.740
I was learning a new language,
I was it slowly became easier and I

00:14:44.740 --> 00:14:50.980
could shift up again to where I would
say maybe after two years when I'd

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been through enough language classes.
Um,

00:14:54.860 --> 00:15:01.970
and I had gotten a driver's license.
Then I could feel that I got to maybe

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80 to 90% of what I was when I left.
I remember the feeling of not being

00:15:07.850 --> 00:15:11.570
able to function at an optimal level
when I was at the peak of burnout.

00:15:11.750 --> 00:15:18.500
So I know all too well how not being
able to operate as 100% Liesel

00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:20.690
would have been hard for Liesel.

00:15:26.330 --> 00:15:32.360
And if you've ever felt that loss of
self to my Sunday emailer 321 shift

00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:36.320
might help you find the path again.
Think of it as a self-care.

00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.610
Pick me up from an overwhelmed dad.
Every second Sunday, three things

00:15:40.610 --> 00:15:43.880
for your mind, two things for your
body and one thing for your soul.

00:15:44.810 --> 00:15:47.270
Oh, and please remember to give
something shifted a five star

00:15:47.270 --> 00:15:50.990
rating when you leave a review
on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify.

00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:54.190
I could read it on the podcasts,
like this one from Jenny.

00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:57.910
Incredible vulnerability.
I tend to cry at least once

00:15:57.910 --> 00:16:00.070
throughout each listen.
Not because it's sad,

00:16:00.070 --> 00:16:04.210
but it's just open, honest,
beautiful conversations that move

00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:08.350
you, that shift something in you.
Thanks, Jenny, for leaving your

00:16:08.350 --> 00:16:11.920
review on Apple Podcasts,
and I could be reading your review

00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:20.350
in the next episode of Something
Shifted. Right. So where were we?

00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:26.050
Oh yes, we're in Sweden,
and Liesel has been operating at 25%,

00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.890
not quite feeling herself unable
to figure things out quickly and

00:16:29.890 --> 00:16:33.400
grasp something immediately like
she did back in South Africa.

00:16:33.910 --> 00:16:38.680
All the newness and learning was
exhausting, but the newness and

00:16:38.680 --> 00:16:43.630
learning is also why she said
yes to this call of adventure.

00:16:45.430 --> 00:16:51.540
From probably when I was a teen,
I was an avid reader of fantasy

00:16:51.540 --> 00:16:54.810
and science fiction and
bubblegum fiction and all of it.

00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.450
I would read everything and
anything I could find.

00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:03.510
I have an insatiable thirst for
knowledge and understanding.

00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.530
One of the reasons that I didn't
become a doctor was the was

00:17:07.530 --> 00:17:11.310
because as a doctor,
you really only do enough to be

00:17:11.310 --> 00:17:14.970
able to treat the patient.
You never really get to understand

00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:19.440
unless that person goes into a
clinical study. How? What happened?

00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:25.140
Um, so that the the why and the
how and the mechanism was always

00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:28.350
fascinating to me.
I mean, this is why I love

00:17:28.350 --> 00:17:32.040
needlework and sewing.
I think it's because understanding

00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:36.720
how you could put like these 2D
patterns together to, to fit and

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:42.210
form a, around a 3D person.
Like how does that work?

00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:48.300
Like the technique, the skill,
or how do you make butter tastes

00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:51.980
like caramel.
Like How it's, you know, like,

00:17:51.980 --> 00:17:55.430
you can hear it in my voice like
that. It's fire in me.

00:17:55.430 --> 00:18:00.800
So wanting to know the how in the
why is the basis of of my drive.

00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:08.720
And then on top of that is how
do I also become financially

00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.910
independent and able to, you know,
stand on my own two feet?

00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:19.070
That has driven my career.
After Lisa completed her

00:18:19.070 --> 00:18:23.330
master's in grapevine virology,
she immediately started work as an

00:18:23.330 --> 00:18:28.220
intern at a biotech startup in Cape
Town, earning peanuts at first,

00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:31.970
which many of us did.
Liesl worked in various departments.

00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:36.950
As the startup grew and grew, and it
ultimately became part of a global

00:18:36.950 --> 00:18:43.640
company in those 11 years, Liesl
said yes to many challenges figuring

00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.390
out solutions as she went along,
enjoying the frustration and the

00:18:47.390 --> 00:18:52.780
thrill of experimenting and learning.
The growing in the company that

00:18:52.780 --> 00:18:56.620
that I did made me feel like I
can do anything,

00:18:57.370 --> 00:19:03.130
and I still have that delusion.
I was saying to a friend the other

00:19:03.130 --> 00:19:08.200
day, like, I dare you to tell me
I can't do something. And then.

00:19:08.980 --> 00:19:14.410
And then, yeah, watch me.
I don't know where that comes from.

00:19:14.410 --> 00:19:16.870
That has to be in your DNA,
right? Like.

00:19:17.620 --> 00:19:20.950
Even if Liesel doesn't know
where that drive comes from,

00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:25.840
I can tell you where it's taken her.
Although Liesel had thought she

00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:30.940
might be a lady of leisure for at
least six months in Sweden, a casual

00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.640
visit to a lab facility in London.
You know,

00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:38.470
just to have a look around led to
a job offer just one week later.

00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.370
So within two months of arriving
in a brand new country,

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:47.770
Liesel was back at work taking
on new challenges and figuring

00:19:47.770 --> 00:19:52.440
things out as she went along.
I was like, you know what I need

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.690
to do? I need to make a friend.
And you didn't have to be a

00:19:54.690 --> 00:19:56.850
Swedish friend.
But I needed to make a friend on that

00:19:56.850 --> 00:20:01.830
side that I can confess things to.
I don't think humans can live

00:20:01.830 --> 00:20:08.070
without, um, a friend.
And I was worried a little bit

00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:10.980
that this friend that I'm making
is only going to get a part of

00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.600
me that I can offer,
because everything else is hard.

00:20:15.930 --> 00:20:20.610
And then I made friends who went
through the same stuff I did,

00:20:20.610 --> 00:20:25.080
and they understood.
Making friends has been lovely

00:20:25.230 --> 00:20:30.570
because it feels like I myself again.
I invited a family over for a braai

00:20:30.810 --> 00:20:38.310
and I cooked and the cooking was
easy and they were blown away.

00:20:38.310 --> 00:20:43.800
Like there was those moments
that I kind of cemented in my in

00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:49.160
my brain to like, remind me,
you know, who I, who I really am.

00:20:50.090 --> 00:20:54.530
For Liesl, the last three years
have been an adventure.

00:20:55.010 --> 00:21:00.950
One way she's lost herself and
slowly rediscovered the core of who

00:21:00.950 --> 00:21:08.090
she is in a completely new way.
It's an odd feeling,

00:21:08.090 --> 00:21:15.860
like crying from happiness is odd.
It's, for example, seeing a piece

00:21:15.860 --> 00:21:21.980
of infrastructure in Sweden that,
you know, would help so many

00:21:21.980 --> 00:21:26.690
people in, in southern Africa.
Like, if we could just implement

00:21:26.690 --> 00:21:32.990
this there, it's that so joyful
that the technology exists,

00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:37.670
but then so sad that so few
humans get to experience it.

00:21:37.820 --> 00:21:40.760
I think all of the new experiences,
you may experience them for what

00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:43.040
they are like.
You walk into the Lego store in

00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:49.900
Denmark and you know you.
You know how your friends love

00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:53.530
Lego and you want them there
with you next to you.

00:21:53.530 --> 00:21:58.000
And so my technique at that stage
is to pretend that they're there

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:02.140
and we're experiencing it together.
That helps.

00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:05.230
You never know what your emotional
response is going to be.

00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:09.220
So sometimes you're you experience
something beautiful and then you cry

00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:17.710
or you see something sad and then
you laugh because, yeah, it's it's

00:22:17.710 --> 00:22:23.230
very it's it's a hard place to be.
It's like the in-between world.

00:22:23.230 --> 00:22:28.270
And I've since leaving had a lot
of inspiration from other

00:22:28.270 --> 00:22:33.520
experts around the world.
I see how they say that you're

00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:36.280
never you're never,
ever going to fit in at home again.

00:22:38.260 --> 00:22:44.080
Perhaps that's the secret joy of
saying yes to change to adventure and

00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:49.260
the unknown, knowing who you are and
being comfortable with that knowledge

00:22:49.260 --> 00:22:53.730
so that you don't feel like you have
to give up who you are to fit in.

00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:58.410
And unfortunately, you never truly
feel that you fit in the new place.

00:22:59.040 --> 00:23:02.580
But honestly, that has always
been true for me. I've.

00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:08.760
I've always been a coloured
aunty from Cape Town, you know,

00:23:08.760 --> 00:23:13.980
with a masters in virology.
I've always been a little,

00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:18.420
a lot different.
I always find myself in unexpected

00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:25.290
situations and I, I definitely have
the skills and the mindset and

00:23:25.290 --> 00:23:33.210
the strength to to deal with it
and love it. Liesel is loving it.

00:23:33.330 --> 00:23:38.730
Thankfully with someone that is
steadfast and always by her side and.

00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:45.300
On most of the time has the opposite
reaction to most things than I have.

00:23:45.750 --> 00:23:54.170
Mine is always very strongly
emotional and he is always very

00:23:54.170 --> 00:24:01.010
logical and factual.
Being even keeled is probably the the

00:24:01.010 --> 00:24:08.720
thing that I value the most in him.
It is the long term sort of

00:24:09.020 --> 00:24:13.550
anchor to my kite,
like if I am blowing in the wind.

00:24:13.580 --> 00:24:21.500
He's he's just my, my anchor.
And that happens daily and

00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:24.590
effortlessly for him, for him,
for the rest of us,

00:24:24.590 --> 00:24:31.130
we're blowing in the wind.
And with Leslie's passion and Anton's

00:24:31.130 --> 00:24:36.020
steadiness, Noah is developing
his own sense of curiosity.

00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:41.240
Like I wanted him to be able to
deal or see big feelings and

00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.680
deal with big feelings.
Um, as soon as he was able to,

00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:51.850
to see and understand.
And I think that kids can survive

00:24:51.850 --> 00:24:56.470
most things as long as they know
that they caregivers love them

00:24:56.470 --> 00:25:01.030
and are there for them.
And the rest is it doesn't matter

00:25:01.030 --> 00:25:05.020
actually where you are in the
world or how cold it is outside.

00:25:05.530 --> 00:25:09.070
It's the fun and the joy and the
love that you have when you're

00:25:09.070 --> 00:25:13.540
spending time together as a family.
I've asked him already, like,

00:25:13.780 --> 00:25:16.630
are you happy or sad that we
left South Africa?

00:25:16.900 --> 00:25:19.450
And then he would say things
like happy and sad.

00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:25.960
And so he, he gets it, uh,
and he he accepts it.

00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:30.610
He doesn't question my decisions yet.
Maybe he will.

00:25:30.610 --> 00:25:37.480
And I will say, I'll probably say we
made the decision for all the for

00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.880
all three of us, it was more job
opportunities and a chance to learn

00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:50.310
more things for all three of us.
And it was we. It was an adventure.

00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:55.170
We were going to do something
completely new. And we did it for.

00:25:55.170 --> 00:26:02.550
For fun, for interest,
for excitement, for for like,

00:26:02.550 --> 00:26:06.810
love of life.
I think that's how I would

00:26:06.810 --> 00:26:12.540
describe it to an older Noah.
And so when we light a brai on a

00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:16.410
scorching summer evening,
we take a page from Liza's book

00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:19.470
and imagine that they are here
enjoying it with us.

00:26:20.280 --> 00:26:24.240
Or we picture the bears in a
snowy winter wonderland.

00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:30.390
Noah learning how to ski, and Liesel
and Anton holding hands, anchoring

00:26:30.390 --> 00:26:33.450
each other in the face of adventure.

00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:42.360
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Something Shifted.

00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:45.150
You can follow something shifted
on Apple Podcasts or your

00:26:45.170 --> 00:26:48.440
favorite podcast player and give
it a five star review.

00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:51.650
Go on, I know you want to.
And then be sure to share this

00:26:51.650 --> 00:26:55.340
episode with your friends and family.
Also, remember to use my code

00:26:55.340 --> 00:26:59.480
Hash Shift 50 at checkout when
you place your first order on you

00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:05.390
KuCoin and you'll get 50% off.
You can find me on Instagram at Sean

00:27:05.390 --> 00:27:10.280
Lewis and my mailing list is three,
two, one shift and out every

00:27:10.280 --> 00:27:14.690
second Sunday.
Think of it as a self-care blitz,

00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:17.840
giving you three things for your
mind, two things for your body

00:27:17.840 --> 00:27:20.900
and one thing for your soul.
Plus, along the way,

00:27:20.990 --> 00:27:24.680
a few little extra fun surprises.
All of the links are in the

00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.560
episode's show notes.
Thanks, as always to my executive

00:27:27.560 --> 00:27:31.640
producer, Rwanda, and to you for
believing in possibility.

00:27:32.150 --> 00:27:39.590
My name is Sean and this is something
shifted. See you in two weeks. Bye.