March 24, 2025
I phoned The Chaeli Campaign for Podcasthon 2025
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My plan was to visit The Chaeli Campaign HQ. But life happened.
So instead, I picked up the phone and spoke to the CEO, Zelda Mycroft.
Zelda shares The Chaeli Campaign's mission to drive social justice and inclusion for people with disabilities.
Highlighting the crucial role of advocacy in changing how society views and supports those with disabiliities, we speak about initiatives such as inclusive education and adaptive sports.
Listen to how Athletics South Africa came to include wheelchair athletes to their rulebook because of the advocacy work done by The Chaeli Campaign.
This episode forms part of Podcasthon 2025, using podcasting for good and raising awareness for charitable causes.
QUOTE:
"Inclusion can't be learned; it has to be lived. That is central to all the work that we do, seeing challenges as opportunities and inviting others along for the journey."
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WEBSITE:
👉🏼 https://somethingshifted.co.za
👉🏼 https://chaelicampaign.org/
INSTAGRAM:
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👉🏼 https://www.instagram.com/chaelicampaign/ Youtube · Instagram · Website · 3-2-1 Shift Newsletter
WEBVTT - This file has cues.
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Hey, how are you?
This episode of Something Shifted
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forms part of a global movement
called podcast Thon. Back in 2023.
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Podcast thon started with just 300
podcasters in France, but today,
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over 1600 podcasters from all
over the world are participating,
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which makes podcast Thon the
world's largest podcast charity
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initiative for a week in March.
Podcast is around the World
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publish an episode in an effort to
raise awareness for a charitable
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cause close to their heart.
As a parent to a child with
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special needs, I want you to
know more about the work of a
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Cape Town based organization
called the Kayley Campaign.
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So my plan was to rock up at
their head office and have a
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look around it, but life.
So instead I'm going super old school
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and I'm just going to pick up the
phone and try to get hold of the CEO.
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Kerry campaign. Good morning.
Morning. Hi, this is Sean speaking.
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I'm looking for Zelda.
Minecraft, please. Sure. It's all.
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Thank you. Hi. Silver speaking.
Morning, Zelda. It's Sean speaking.
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How are you? I'm Sean.
If that last name Mycroft is
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sounding familiar to you,
you score an extra ten points.
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It should, because it means you've
been listening to the previous
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episodes of Something Shifted.
You'll remember I spoke with
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Kaley Mycroft not too long ago.
The Kaley campaign is the
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organization that Kaley started
with a group of friends.
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Good to hear your voice.
So could you tell me more about
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the Kaley campaign, please?
The Kaley campaign is a social
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Justice Foundation that celebrates
its 21st birthday this year.
00:02:04.710 --> 00:02:10.320
Um, I think one of the special
features is that, uh,
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origin story is quite special.
Uh, we were founded 21 years ago
00:02:16.470 --> 00:02:20.850
by five girls between the ages
of six and 12.
00:02:20.880 --> 00:02:27.540
Two sets of sisters, um, who created
employment for both their mothers.
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I don't think many other, um,
organizations can can have that
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their track record.
So the mother of the founders.
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Um, Justine, Karen and Chelsea Diane
has been the financial manager of
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our organization for 21 years.
And Kenny and Erin are my members,
00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:55.140
and I've been the CEO for the
past 21 years.
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So I think the most important
thing about our organization is we
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built on love and relationships.
We carry that ethos through to
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the work that we do with disabled
children, their families,
00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:16.040
their communities.
And, um, we truly look at
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disability inclusion as being
necessary across all the layers
00:03:20.930 --> 00:03:28.430
of disabled people's lives.
What started off as five girls
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raising 20,000 grand to get a
motorized wheelchair for their
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sister and their friend,
created the realization that
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.520
what was actually being gifted
was independence and choice.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:51.980
And it's those softer, um,
skills and values that really
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focus on the fact that even though
we have Isoquant inefficient.
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Every year we work directly with
about 30% of that would be
00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:07.880
disabled people, children,
youth and adults, and 70%.
00:04:07.970 --> 00:04:12.710
Majority of our work happens
with non-disabled people because
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that's where the inclusion
paradigm shift has to happen.
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Those stats are incredible to hear.
Can you tell me, you know, what are
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the things that you're involved
in then? So we were involved in.
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Inclusive education, focusing on
early childhood development,
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because we believe that if children
before the age of six can be set,
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a framework in which inclusion
happens easily and automatically,
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um, that sets them up as inclusion
actors for the rest of their lives.
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So our early preschool inclusive
preschool play the Katie Cottage
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Preschool is really a living
example of that ethos.
00:05:00.230 --> 00:05:09.260
We also work in community in about 40
mainstream preschools to also install
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that ethos of inclusion and then,
um, adaptive sports leadership
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development and then general advocacy
in all spaces is the broad mandate of
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what the Kaylie campaign stands for.
That's really incredible.
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I'm sure you probably hear that
quite often that the work you're
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doing is incredible.
Um, and I hope you're hearing
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that often that the work you're
doing is incredible.
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Um, the lives and the number of
lives that you've already
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touched up until this point,
and you're saying you're marking
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your 21st birthday, what are you
looking forward to, to next?
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What what else is there that you
still feel you have scope to achieve?
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Zelda.
Well, you know,
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I think the difficult thing working
in the disability sector is that
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so often we have to revisit so
many of the same things, and that
00:06:01.070 --> 00:06:06.320
you can't be despondent because
we continuously find new people,
00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:12.410
new non-disabled people who do not
understand the value of what disabled
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people bring to their communities.
So I think in general terms,
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what what we're aiming to do is for,
um, communities and society at large,
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recognising that disability
excellence is a reality, that if we
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create space for disabled people to
have an opportunity to reach their
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full potential, everybody wins.
And, um, in broad strokes,
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that it we need to be present in
every aspect of life.
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And so often disabled people are
given, um, you know, the short straw.
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You know, people, um, often speak
about we need to practice tolerance.
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But tolerance is an awful word.
We need to expect, um, acceptance.
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Because all of us are different.
And, see, we are common ground.
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Work towards filling those spaces
where we have common interests.
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And it is to the advantage of
everybody.
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If every member of a family and
every member of our community,
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um, is harness their gifts,
their talents are harnessed to,
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um, complete that family in that
community. Absolutely nobody.
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.460
Yeah. Nobody should.
You know, you often have this the
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thing that is, there was a movement.
um, which, uh, and it's quoted all
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the time nothing about us without us.
And we kind of we've edited that.
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We don't believe.
We believe that's quite a dated
00:08:03.970 --> 00:08:06.640
concept. Nothing about us.
Without us.
00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:12.310
We believe that it should be nothing
without us, because it shouldn't
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just be issues that affect our lives
as disabled people or families.
00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:24.580
Um, with disabled family member,
we are human beings who have a right
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to have a voice in every space.
100% agree, and I immediately start
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thinking of universal design.
And I know you're talking about
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space incorporating more than
just a physical space.
00:08:35.290 --> 00:08:39.970
But if we do look at physical spaces,
uh, they aren't always designed
00:08:39.970 --> 00:08:42.490
universally.
They're not universally friendly for
00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:47.260
everybody to be able to access them.
And and I'm hoping and I'm pretty
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sure that the work that you're
doing is opening people's eyes.
00:08:51.160 --> 00:08:53.350
Uh. Have you. What?
What are the things that you're
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seeing? The biggest changes.
Where have you seen some of the
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biggest changes?
Uh, is it just in perception, or are
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there physical things that others
are able to look at and go, wow,
00:09:03.250 --> 00:09:06.190
the Kaylee campaign has had an impact
here. Look at what they've done.
00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:10.900
I believe that the biggest
impact we've had, first of all,
00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:15.610
our definition of sustainability
has got nothing to do with money.
00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:19.690
Our definition of sustainability
is we are still here.
00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:24.340
Um, and and really,
you have to be tenacious.
00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:30.580
You have to be resilient in the space
and you have to keep showing up.
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And I think to pick one example,
um, in adaptive sports,
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we we are second in the Kaley
Sports and Recreation Club.
00:09:40.420 --> 00:09:46.000
In 2016, um served legal papers
on the Comrades Marathon because
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the rules Rule stated no
wheelchairs for Katie and Anita.
00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:57.430
After two months of robust
fighting and serving legal papers,
00:09:57.430 --> 00:10:01.180
and including every man and his
dog in a high profile position
00:10:01.180 --> 00:10:04.630
in those legal papers,
and then eventually threatening to
00:10:04.630 --> 00:10:10.420
take them to the Equality Court,
resulted in Anita and Kelly as
00:10:10.420 --> 00:10:17.470
assistant adapted athletes being able
to do the Comrades Marathon in 2016.
00:10:18.910 --> 00:10:24.310
Um, and we have to keep showing up.
So it wasn't a one day wonder.
00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:29.290
And the following year, Kelly was
the first person, first wheelchair
00:10:29.290 --> 00:10:35.260
user to get her back to back medal.
Um, and then in 2018,
00:10:35.260 --> 00:10:39.730
a wonderful thing happened
because of our advocacy, um,
00:10:39.970 --> 00:10:44.170
is now in the road running rulebook
for Athletics South Africa.
00:10:44.170 --> 00:10:50.140
There is a section all about the
inclusion of wheelchair athletes, and
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all the seven years down the track,
Kaylie has completed six comrades.
00:10:55.270 --> 00:11:01.870
Anita has competed multiple comrades.
I think it's 4 or 5 and other
00:11:01.870 --> 00:11:05.320
people are following suit.
But for me, the important thing
00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:12.790
is we have a tangible reference
in heading changed the athletics
00:11:12.790 --> 00:11:15.760
of Africa, not only the
perception but their rulebook.
00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:21.610
And it means that we don't have
to fight this fight because
00:11:21.610 --> 00:11:26.950
we've got it in writing that it
is disabled wheelchair athletes
00:11:26.950 --> 00:11:32.380
right to participate.
So I always hold that up as a
00:11:32.380 --> 00:11:41.140
very big milestone moment.
But it's only a writing on paper
00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:45.160
if we we have to continue
showing up in those spaces.
00:11:45.160 --> 00:11:48.750
Sure. Yeah. What a cool story.
I mean, I was smiling from ear
00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:52.290
to ear and had, you know,
tears leaking out the side of my
00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:56.460
eye all at the same time because
it's such a joyous thing and really,
00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.060
that emotion that drives that
forward, bringing people together
00:12:00.060 --> 00:12:03.480
essentially is what you're doing, um,
which is such a wonderful thing.
00:12:03.510 --> 00:12:06.270
Absolutely.
And, Sean, you know, the thing that I
00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:11.070
find most important is that when
you when you continue to show up,
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:19.230
you we believe very strongly in, um,
person to person advocacy because
00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:22.590
when somebody has met a need,
when somebody has made butter,
00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:27.030
when somebody has made ceilidh,
it changes their lives forever.
00:12:27.030 --> 00:12:32.880
Change perceptions about ability
and what people can do.
00:12:33.180 --> 00:12:37.080
And it's in those changed
perceptions which again,
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:42.240
we don't want alive is a lovely word.
But what we want, um,
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.290
is more than that.
We want Collaborators and and we
00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:53.010
want people to actually make good
trouble with us on our behalf.
00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:58.830
So you need more than collaborators.
You need conspirators who go out to
00:12:58.830 --> 00:13:04.590
help change the world to be a more
inclusive space and in, um, making
00:13:04.590 --> 00:13:10.350
time to do one on one advocacy.
Arriving in unexpected spaces is
00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:14.430
so important.
Um, you know, you you mentioned the
00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:21.390
physical environment and space and
all of the things that possibly make
00:13:21.390 --> 00:13:26.250
it more difficult for royalty users,
for example, to access a building.
00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:32.370
Um, we've always been of the
opinion that they are space.
00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:37.590
So now we we actually want to get
into that building because there cool
00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.790
things happening in that building.
So let's find a couple of strong
00:13:41.790 --> 00:13:46.680
men And, you know,
not resisting or fighting the
00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:50.610
fact you can do that as well.
So this place needs to become
00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:57.780
physically more accessible around
universal accessibility guidelines.
00:13:57.870 --> 00:14:02.490
But if we can change the attitude of
people to get us into rooms in spite
00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:07.890
of those physical predicaments and
challenges, those people lifting
00:14:07.890 --> 00:14:13.260
Kaylee's very heavy wheelchair up
first steps are definitely going
00:14:13.260 --> 00:14:16.170
to look at those steps differently
the next time they walk up there.
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:21.870
So it was changed perceptions,
working on that all the time. Yeah.
00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:27.330
A story I told somebody once about
how having someone in your family,
00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:30.780
and obviously my child is still
very small with her disabilities.
00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:33.930
And the challenges that you feel
you feel people are looking at you,
00:14:33.930 --> 00:14:37.410
you feel isolated.
And invariably the reason you
00:14:37.410 --> 00:14:40.980
don't see a lot of us out there
is because we we might very well
00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:44.340
feel exactly that isolated.
I don't feel welcome in this space,
00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:49.500
so I choose not to go out. Yeah.
But as as Zoey has gotten older
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:53.070
and as we have realized,
people need to see us out.
00:14:53.070 --> 00:14:57.540
People need to see us as a family.
People need to see us using spaces.
00:14:57.540 --> 00:15:00.030
Exactly to your point,
they need to see us.
00:15:00.300 --> 00:15:05.520
Um, I try my words so carefully, but
if I'm struggling in an environment,
00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:09.360
then step up and help me.
If you've experienced that with me,
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.480
you can see why it's important
to advocate going forward.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:17.910
Absolutely. Collaboration.
And I think I'm very fortunate that,
00:15:18.150 --> 00:15:23.670
um, as a former school teacher,
I was very happy to, um,
00:15:24.300 --> 00:15:28.620
pass on instructions to total
strangers and children.
00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:34.350
So from the time that Kelly could
started speaking and it was a little
00:15:34.470 --> 00:15:42.320
we we gave her framework on how
to interact with people because
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:47.600
right from the beginning, kids
particularly are kids are delightful.
00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:53.090
They need to know. So they are. Yeah.
And kids would come up to me all the
00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:56.120
time and say, what's wrong with her?
And I'd say, there's nothing wrong
00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.890
with her, but why don't you ask her?
And then we frame this conversation
00:16:00.890 --> 00:16:04.580
with Kaylee followed, saying,
there's nothing wrong with my legs.
00:16:04.670 --> 00:16:06.740
They just don't work the same
way they choose to.
00:16:06.740 --> 00:16:12.440
Yes, look a cool way in which I
now work and walk in inverted
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.830
commas in the script.
And an important thing that
00:16:15.830 --> 00:16:19.310
happens all the time.
The two words that we we often
00:16:19.310 --> 00:16:22.040
concepts we battle against all
the time.
00:16:22.430 --> 00:16:27.020
The one is wheelchair bound when
everybody says and that's that's
00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:30.560
sort of the go to descriptor.
She is wheelchair bound.
00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:34.250
And we say, no, no, no, no,
she is wheelchair empowered.
00:16:34.850 --> 00:16:37.970
If she didn't have a wheelchair,
she'd be homebound. Correct.
00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:43.700
So always trying to to get
people to see things positively.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.110
And then the other thing that we
always push against is the word
00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:51.770
normal. Yes.
Um, because you go to a normal
00:16:51.770 --> 00:16:57.020
school, does she have normal friends?
And, um, we just had it this weekend.
00:16:57.020 --> 00:17:01.100
We were we were in Bloemfontein.
Um, Kaylee and the running
00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:05.360
partner Schonfeld at the
marathon in bloom last Saturday.
00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:09.620
And this is very lovely, man.
Elderly man came and walked next
00:17:09.620 --> 00:17:12.110
to us and said to us, well,
you know what?
00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.310
When she meets her maker,
you don't have to worry because
00:17:16.310 --> 00:17:19.670
when she meets her maker,
she will be totally normal.
00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:23.540
And I had to actually just total
stranger say to him,
00:17:24.050 --> 00:17:29.420
she's totally normal right now and
in fact has accomplished a lot.
00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.290
But she is exactly.
If you want to use a religious
00:17:34.010 --> 00:17:37.610
reference,
this is the way she was made.
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:45.200
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, people.
Well, people can use those terms
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:50.660
so loosely and so frequently and
with the assumption of children
00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:54.770
being less than. Mhm.
So that is the main perception
00:17:54.770 --> 00:18:00.530
that I feel we need to
constantly do battle with.
00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:05.120
And sometimes it's ticking with
a feather and sometimes it's
00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:10.550
speaking because. I love that.
And let's, let's hope we don't have
00:18:10.550 --> 00:18:12.890
the beat with too many sticks and can
rather tickle with the feathers.
00:18:12.890 --> 00:18:16.790
And they get it quickly. Huh? Um, I.
Think sometimes, sometimes you
00:18:16.790 --> 00:18:19.070
have to be two thirds thick.
You know, you can.
00:18:19.070 --> 00:18:24.260
Only because there's a time for
for all of these actions.
00:18:24.260 --> 00:18:28.370
If you if if I go back to the the,
um, comrades marathon thing,
00:18:28.370 --> 00:18:32.480
we tickled with the Sabres for a
good few weeks, ran out of time,
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.440
and then we had to start,
you know, we had the legal papers
00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:39.110
and we had to actually threatened
that we had to be prophetic.
00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:41.270
Yeah, there's there's a lot of
work to be done.
00:18:41.270 --> 00:18:44.930
And I think you've definitely.
You've you've spearheaded the
00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.990
way forward.
Um, and again, congratulations on
00:18:47.990 --> 00:18:50.900
everything that the Kelly campaign
has achieved up until this point.
00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:53.720
And I believe it will continue
to do very much more.
00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:56.780
I will most certainly include
details in the show notes of this
00:18:56.780 --> 00:18:59.780
episode for people to find you.
But since I do have you on the phone,
00:18:59.780 --> 00:19:06.290
Zelda, what is the best thing that
people can do to support those,
00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.160
uh, that are in predicaments
that we're dealing with through
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.490
the Kelly campaign or adjacent
to the Kelly campaign?
00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.950
What would you suggest to them?
Oh, well, I think just in everyday
00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:26.540
interaction, the thing that, um,
separates non-disabled communities
00:19:26.540 --> 00:19:32.930
from disabled people is fear.
The fear of not being understood.
00:19:32.930 --> 00:19:36.830
The fear of being embarrassed.
The fear of catching something, you
00:19:36.830 --> 00:19:42.620
know, all of those unspoken fears.
And my, my encouragement would
00:19:42.620 --> 00:19:49.160
be when you see somebody who is
different to you. Do not be fearful.
00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:53.630
Just how would you treat any other
person? You go up and you treat.
00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:58.160
You speak to that person in the
wheelchair as a person because
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:02.210
that's what they are.
So do not make let your own fears
00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:11.780
of um not being up to the task
or not knowing how to respond.
00:20:12.050 --> 00:20:15.980
Be brave,
get into or get out of your comfort
00:20:15.980 --> 00:20:21.650
zone and allow an interaction.
Encourage an interaction with
00:20:21.650 --> 00:20:26.990
somebody who is not like you in
order for you to grow.
00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:29.930
Because so often people feel,
you know,
00:20:29.930 --> 00:20:34.400
I'm doing a favor to this person,
I'm going to push them in this race.
00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:37.660
I'm going to volunteer my time
to school.
00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:44.890
And the biggest takeaway ever.
And it's always the case is when
00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:50.950
I'm doing something that I think
is a good thing for somebody else,
00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:55.270
and I spend my time doing it.
I am always the winner.
00:20:56.140 --> 00:20:59.530
So, you know,
we feel that we've always felt
00:20:59.530 --> 00:21:05.170
that we needed to foist Kaylee
on other people with gay abandon
00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:11.860
because they were the lucky ones.
People who meet our children,
00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:15.400
people who meet our friends who
are disabled.
00:21:16.090 --> 00:21:18.910
Um, they are the lucky ones
because they are the ones who
00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:22.690
are gaining something special.
They're learning lessons that
00:21:22.690 --> 00:21:26.710
they can learn nowhere else,
and it's enriching their lives.
00:21:27.730 --> 00:21:32.320
And I think just just before us,
what's on my mind?
00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:37.840
I'm sure Katie has also mentioned to
you that we're very intentional in
00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:44.770
using, um, identity first language as
opposed to people first language.
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:52.510
Um, with the acknowledged red
speaking or the generally accepted
00:21:52.510 --> 00:21:57.430
way speaking is saying I'm a person
with a disability because there
00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:01.960
was that whole movement around.
People first see me before you
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.620
see my wheelchair.
And that's where the nothing about
00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:11.290
us without us also grew out of.
But a more modern, um, movement
00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:17.890
is to claim disability pride.
Because when you say I'm a person
00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:21.220
with a disability and you put
disability on the backburner,
00:22:21.610 --> 00:22:25.630
there's almost an implication of
don't see my disability,
00:22:25.630 --> 00:22:32.710
see me as a person.
And disability does define Way
00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:35.920
in which you deserve.
You know, when people say
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.360
disability doesn't define me,
Keisha Kelly kicks against that
00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:45.880
all the time. It does define me.
My disability defines what I do
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.660
with every minute of my day.
And as a result,
00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:56.260
I need to have pride in my
disability as part of my identity.
00:22:56.650 --> 00:23:01.390
So we we don't say person with a
disability,
00:23:01.390 --> 00:23:07.600
we say disabled person purposefully
because we claiming the disabled
00:23:07.600 --> 00:23:12.760
tag as something to be proud of.
I hear you and back to what you
00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:16.090
were saying as well about, uh,
being fearful maybe of an
00:23:16.090 --> 00:23:20.920
interaction with a disabled person.
I can say wholeheartedly that our
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:25.480
friends that interact with my child
who has who is disabled, always come
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:30.130
away feeling that much more enriched.
Uh, so there's definitely something
00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:33.580
that they're gaining by doing so,
by stepping out of their comfort
00:23:33.580 --> 00:23:37.180
zone and embracing, you know,
whatever that fear that they may
00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:39.880
think they have.
Stepping beyond that goes goes a
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.420
long way for them and for those
around them and exactly what we're
00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:46.720
looking for, right, with the Kelly
campaign. So thank you, Zelda.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.570
Is there anything else you want
to say before I, before I let
00:23:49.570 --> 00:23:53.110
you go back to your very busy
day of being a CEO and managing
00:23:53.110 --> 00:23:58.780
all sorts of various entities.
You know, I just feel a need to
00:23:58.780 --> 00:24:04.480
finish on one quote that was coined
by one of our founders when she was
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:12.310
six years old, Chelsea Kerry, um,
spoke about how inclusion can't
00:24:12.310 --> 00:24:18.340
be learned. It has to be lived.
And that's kind of become one of
00:24:18.340 --> 00:24:22.960
our really calls.
Um, inclusion can't be learned.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.290
It has to be lived.
And I think that is central to
00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:30.420
all the work that we do.
When was with the relationships,
00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:34.560
the conversations,
the opportunities, um,
00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:40.410
seeing challenges as opportunities.
It's all about interconnectedness
00:24:40.410 --> 00:24:45.780
and inviting other people along for
the journey with us so that they
00:24:45.780 --> 00:24:50.490
can to learn the magic of what it's
like to have every member of your
00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:57.390
community seen, heard, and truly
appreciated. Such a great quote.
00:24:57.510 --> 00:24:59.970
Perfection. Yeah, lovely.
Zelda,
00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.610
thank you so much for your time.
Um, this has been really lovely.
00:25:02.610 --> 00:25:05.130
And again, I'm sorry I couldn't
visit, but hopefully in the near
00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:07.320
future I can pop around for a
coffee or something and.
00:25:07.320 --> 00:25:10.170
We look forward to that.
We look forward to that and we look
00:25:10.170 --> 00:25:13.200
forward to meeting Zoe as well.
Yes, we must make that happen.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.680
Yes, let's do it. Thanks, Sean.
Have a good one. Thanks, Zelda.
00:25:16.710 --> 00:25:23.700
Okay. Bye bye.
Thank you for listening to this
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:26.850
episode of Something Shifted.
We make this show as a labor of love.
00:25:26.850 --> 00:25:29.700
And because we believe stories
about possibility.
00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:31.170
It's just what the world needs
to hear.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.930
We'd really love it if you would
share this episode and be part of
00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.890
that shift for someone else, too.
And if you really like the show,
00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:41.550
go ahead and leave it a five star
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00:25:41.550 --> 00:25:45.840
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You can also leave a comment if
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I read them all and respond
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.710
there too.
You can join my mailing list 321
00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:55.950
shift and start the week off right
with three things for your mind.
00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:58.320
Two things for your body and one
thing for your soul.
00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:01.800
Every second Sunday.
Plus, you'll automatically go into
00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:05.190
the draw for giveaways and have first
dibs on tickets to live events.
00:26:05.190 --> 00:26:08.340
To all of the links to all of
the things that I've mentioned
00:26:08.340 --> 00:26:11.760
are in the show notes.
Big thanks, as always to my executive
00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:16.440
producer, Rhonda, and of course to
you for believing in possibility.
00:26:16.860 --> 00:26:22.980
My name is Shawn and this is
something shifted by.
00:00:00.060 --> 00:00:04.920
Hey, how are you?
This episode of Something Shifted
00:00:04.920 --> 00:00:11.400
forms part of a global movement
called podcast Thon. Back in 2023.
00:00:11.430 --> 00:00:16.950
Podcast thon started with just 300
podcasters in France, but today,
00:00:16.950 --> 00:00:21.720
over 1600 podcasters from all
over the world are participating,
00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:25.410
which makes podcast Thon the
world's largest podcast charity
00:00:25.410 --> 00:00:29.910
initiative for a week in March.
Podcast is around the World
00:00:29.910 --> 00:00:34.050
publish an episode in an effort to
raise awareness for a charitable
00:00:34.050 --> 00:00:37.710
cause close to their heart.
As a parent to a child with
00:00:37.710 --> 00:00:41.250
special needs, I want you to
know more about the work of a
00:00:41.250 --> 00:00:44.820
Cape Town based organization
called the Kayley Campaign.
00:00:45.420 --> 00:00:48.540
So my plan was to rock up at
their head office and have a
00:00:48.540 --> 00:00:55.920
look around it, but life.
So instead I'm going super old school
00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:00.990
and I'm just going to pick up the
phone and try to get hold of the CEO.
00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:12.240
Kerry campaign. Good morning.
Morning. Hi, this is Sean speaking.
00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:17.130
I'm looking for Zelda.
Minecraft, please. Sure. It's all.
00:01:17.250 --> 00:01:25.020
Thank you. Hi. Silver speaking.
Morning, Zelda. It's Sean speaking.
00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:30.840
How are you? I'm Sean.
If that last name Mycroft is
00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.170
sounding familiar to you,
you score an extra ten points.
00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:37.110
It should, because it means you've
been listening to the previous
00:01:37.110 --> 00:01:41.310
episodes of Something Shifted.
You'll remember I spoke with
00:01:41.310 --> 00:01:46.530
Kaley Mycroft not too long ago.
The Kaley campaign is the
00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:50.040
organization that Kaley started
with a group of friends.
00:01:51.240 --> 00:01:54.420
Good to hear your voice.
So could you tell me more about
00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:58.320
the Kaley campaign, please?
The Kaley campaign is a social
00:01:58.320 --> 00:02:03.990
Justice Foundation that celebrates
its 21st birthday this year.
00:02:04.710 --> 00:02:10.320
Um, I think one of the special
features is that, uh,
00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:16.470
origin story is quite special.
Uh, we were founded 21 years ago
00:02:16.470 --> 00:02:20.850
by five girls between the ages
of six and 12.
00:02:20.880 --> 00:02:27.540
Two sets of sisters, um, who created
employment for both their mothers.
00:02:28.230 --> 00:02:33.660
I don't think many other, um,
organizations can can have that
00:02:33.660 --> 00:02:37.740
their track record.
So the mother of the founders.
00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:44.190
Um, Justine, Karen and Chelsea Diane
has been the financial manager of
00:02:44.190 --> 00:02:50.970
our organization for 21 years.
And Kenny and Erin are my members,
00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:55.140
and I've been the CEO for the
past 21 years.
00:02:55.140 --> 00:02:59.270
So I think the most important
thing about our organization is we
00:02:59.270 --> 00:03:05.330
built on love and relationships.
We carry that ethos through to
00:03:05.330 --> 00:03:10.760
the work that we do with disabled
children, their families,
00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:16.040
their communities.
And, um, we truly look at
00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:20.930
disability inclusion as being
necessary across all the layers
00:03:20.930 --> 00:03:28.430
of disabled people's lives.
What started off as five girls
00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:33.800
raising 20,000 grand to get a
motorized wheelchair for their
00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:37.520
sister and their friend,
created the realization that
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.520
what was actually being gifted
was independence and choice.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:51.980
And it's those softer, um,
skills and values that really
00:03:51.980 --> 00:03:57.170
focus on the fact that even though
we have Isoquant inefficient.
00:03:57.170 --> 00:04:02.480
Every year we work directly with
about 30% of that would be
00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:07.880
disabled people, children,
youth and adults, and 70%.
00:04:07.970 --> 00:04:12.710
Majority of our work happens
with non-disabled people because
00:04:12.710 --> 00:04:17.570
that's where the inclusion
paradigm shift has to happen.
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.560
Those stats are incredible to hear.
Can you tell me, you know, what are
00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:25.760
the things that you're involved
in then? So we were involved in.
00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:30.980
Inclusive education, focusing on
early childhood development,
00:04:31.790 --> 00:04:39.170
because we believe that if children
before the age of six can be set,
00:04:39.170 --> 00:04:44.930
a framework in which inclusion
happens easily and automatically,
00:04:45.470 --> 00:04:50.570
um, that sets them up as inclusion
actors for the rest of their lives.
00:04:51.050 --> 00:04:55.010
So our early preschool inclusive
preschool play the Katie Cottage
00:04:55.010 --> 00:05:00.020
Preschool is really a living
example of that ethos.
00:05:00.230 --> 00:05:09.260
We also work in community in about 40
mainstream preschools to also install
00:05:09.260 --> 00:05:14.780
that ethos of inclusion and then,
um, adaptive sports leadership
00:05:14.780 --> 00:05:23.000
development and then general advocacy
in all spaces is the broad mandate of
00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:28.040
what the Kaylie campaign stands for.
That's really incredible.
00:05:28.130 --> 00:05:31.070
I'm sure you probably hear that
quite often that the work you're
00:05:31.070 --> 00:05:33.950
doing is incredible.
Um, and I hope you're hearing
00:05:33.950 --> 00:05:37.220
that often that the work you're
doing is incredible.
00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:39.500
Um, the lives and the number of
lives that you've already
00:05:39.500 --> 00:05:42.410
touched up until this point,
and you're saying you're marking
00:05:42.410 --> 00:05:46.700
your 21st birthday, what are you
looking forward to, to next?
00:05:46.700 --> 00:05:50.150
What what else is there that you
still feel you have scope to achieve?
00:05:50.150 --> 00:05:52.490
Zelda.
Well, you know,
00:05:52.490 --> 00:05:56.540
I think the difficult thing working
in the disability sector is that
00:05:56.780 --> 00:06:01.070
so often we have to revisit so
many of the same things, and that
00:06:01.070 --> 00:06:06.320
you can't be despondent because
we continuously find new people,
00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:12.410
new non-disabled people who do not
understand the value of what disabled
00:06:12.410 --> 00:06:17.660
people bring to their communities.
So I think in general terms,
00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:24.950
what what we're aiming to do is for,
um, communities and society at large,
00:06:24.950 --> 00:06:32.840
recognising that disability
excellence is a reality, that if we
00:06:32.840 --> 00:06:39.590
create space for disabled people to
have an opportunity to reach their
00:06:39.590 --> 00:06:46.760
full potential, everybody wins.
And, um, in broad strokes,
00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:52.300
that it we need to be present in
every aspect of life.
00:06:52.630 --> 00:07:01.810
And so often disabled people are
given, um, you know, the short straw.
00:07:01.840 --> 00:07:08.410
You know, people, um, often speak
about we need to practice tolerance.
00:07:08.650 --> 00:07:16.000
But tolerance is an awful word.
We need to expect, um, acceptance.
00:07:16.210 --> 00:07:19.510
Because all of us are different.
And, see, we are common ground.
00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:24.580
Work towards filling those spaces
where we have common interests.
00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.930
And it is to the advantage of
everybody.
00:07:29.140 --> 00:07:34.450
If every member of a family and
every member of our community,
00:07:35.140 --> 00:07:39.940
um, is harness their gifts,
their talents are harnessed to,
00:07:39.940 --> 00:07:44.680
um, complete that family in that
community. Absolutely nobody.
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.460
Yeah. Nobody should.
You know, you often have this the
00:07:48.460 --> 00:07:54.430
thing that is, there was a movement.
um, which, uh, and it's quoted all
00:07:54.430 --> 00:08:01.240
the time nothing about us without us.
And we kind of we've edited that.
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.970
We don't believe.
We believe that's quite a dated
00:08:03.970 --> 00:08:06.640
concept. Nothing about us.
Without us.
00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:12.310
We believe that it should be nothing
without us, because it shouldn't
00:08:12.310 --> 00:08:17.920
just be issues that affect our lives
as disabled people or families.
00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:24.580
Um, with disabled family member,
we are human beings who have a right
00:08:24.580 --> 00:08:29.170
to have a voice in every space.
100% agree, and I immediately start
00:08:29.170 --> 00:08:32.320
thinking of universal design.
And I know you're talking about
00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.290
space incorporating more than
just a physical space.
00:08:35.290 --> 00:08:39.970
But if we do look at physical spaces,
uh, they aren't always designed
00:08:39.970 --> 00:08:42.490
universally.
They're not universally friendly for
00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:47.260
everybody to be able to access them.
And and I'm hoping and I'm pretty
00:08:47.260 --> 00:08:50.830
sure that the work that you're
doing is opening people's eyes.
00:08:51.160 --> 00:08:53.350
Uh. Have you. What?
What are the things that you're
00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:56.170
seeing? The biggest changes.
Where have you seen some of the
00:08:56.170 --> 00:09:00.130
biggest changes?
Uh, is it just in perception, or are
00:09:00.130 --> 00:09:03.250
there physical things that others
are able to look at and go, wow,
00:09:03.250 --> 00:09:06.190
the Kaylee campaign has had an impact
here. Look at what they've done.
00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:10.900
I believe that the biggest
impact we've had, first of all,
00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:15.610
our definition of sustainability
has got nothing to do with money.
00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:19.690
Our definition of sustainability
is we are still here.
00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:24.340
Um, and and really,
you have to be tenacious.
00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:30.580
You have to be resilient in the space
and you have to keep showing up.
00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:35.770
And I think to pick one example,
um, in adaptive sports,
00:09:36.220 --> 00:09:40.180
we we are second in the Kaley
Sports and Recreation Club.
00:09:40.420 --> 00:09:46.000
In 2016, um served legal papers
on the Comrades Marathon because
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:51.700
the rules Rule stated no
wheelchairs for Katie and Anita.
00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:57.430
After two months of robust
fighting and serving legal papers,
00:09:57.430 --> 00:10:01.180
and including every man and his
dog in a high profile position
00:10:01.180 --> 00:10:04.630
in those legal papers,
and then eventually threatening to
00:10:04.630 --> 00:10:10.420
take them to the Equality Court,
resulted in Anita and Kelly as
00:10:10.420 --> 00:10:17.470
assistant adapted athletes being able
to do the Comrades Marathon in 2016.
00:10:18.910 --> 00:10:24.310
Um, and we have to keep showing up.
So it wasn't a one day wonder.
00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:29.290
And the following year, Kelly was
the first person, first wheelchair
00:10:29.290 --> 00:10:35.260
user to get her back to back medal.
Um, and then in 2018,
00:10:35.260 --> 00:10:39.730
a wonderful thing happened
because of our advocacy, um,
00:10:39.970 --> 00:10:44.170
is now in the road running rulebook
for Athletics South Africa.
00:10:44.170 --> 00:10:50.140
There is a section all about the
inclusion of wheelchair athletes, and
00:10:50.140 --> 00:10:55.180
all the seven years down the track,
Kaylie has completed six comrades.
00:10:55.270 --> 00:11:01.870
Anita has competed multiple comrades.
I think it's 4 or 5 and other
00:11:01.870 --> 00:11:05.320
people are following suit.
But for me, the important thing
00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:12.790
is we have a tangible reference
in heading changed the athletics
00:11:12.790 --> 00:11:15.760
of Africa, not only the
perception but their rulebook.
00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:21.610
And it means that we don't have
to fight this fight because
00:11:21.610 --> 00:11:26.950
we've got it in writing that it
is disabled wheelchair athletes
00:11:26.950 --> 00:11:32.380
right to participate.
So I always hold that up as a
00:11:32.380 --> 00:11:41.140
very big milestone moment.
But it's only a writing on paper
00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:45.160
if we we have to continue
showing up in those spaces.
00:11:45.160 --> 00:11:48.750
Sure. Yeah. What a cool story.
I mean, I was smiling from ear
00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:52.290
to ear and had, you know,
tears leaking out the side of my
00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:56.460
eye all at the same time because
it's such a joyous thing and really,
00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.060
that emotion that drives that
forward, bringing people together
00:12:00.060 --> 00:12:03.480
essentially is what you're doing, um,
which is such a wonderful thing.
00:12:03.510 --> 00:12:06.270
Absolutely.
And, Sean, you know, the thing that I
00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:11.070
find most important is that when
you when you continue to show up,
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:19.230
you we believe very strongly in, um,
person to person advocacy because
00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:22.590
when somebody has met a need,
when somebody has made butter,
00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:27.030
when somebody has made ceilidh,
it changes their lives forever.
00:12:27.030 --> 00:12:32.880
Change perceptions about ability
and what people can do.
00:12:33.180 --> 00:12:37.080
And it's in those changed
perceptions which again,
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:42.240
we don't want alive is a lovely word.
But what we want, um,
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.290
is more than that.
We want Collaborators and and we
00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:53.010
want people to actually make good
trouble with us on our behalf.
00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:58.830
So you need more than collaborators.
You need conspirators who go out to
00:12:58.830 --> 00:13:04.590
help change the world to be a more
inclusive space and in, um, making
00:13:04.590 --> 00:13:10.350
time to do one on one advocacy.
Arriving in unexpected spaces is
00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:14.430
so important.
Um, you know, you you mentioned the
00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:21.390
physical environment and space and
all of the things that possibly make
00:13:21.390 --> 00:13:26.250
it more difficult for royalty users,
for example, to access a building.
00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:32.370
Um, we've always been of the
opinion that they are space.
00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:37.590
So now we we actually want to get
into that building because there cool
00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.790
things happening in that building.
So let's find a couple of strong
00:13:41.790 --> 00:13:46.680
men And, you know,
not resisting or fighting the
00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:50.610
fact you can do that as well.
So this place needs to become
00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:57.780
physically more accessible around
universal accessibility guidelines.
00:13:57.870 --> 00:14:02.490
But if we can change the attitude of
people to get us into rooms in spite
00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:07.890
of those physical predicaments and
challenges, those people lifting
00:14:07.890 --> 00:14:13.260
Kaylee's very heavy wheelchair up
first steps are definitely going
00:14:13.260 --> 00:14:16.170
to look at those steps differently
the next time they walk up there.
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:21.870
So it was changed perceptions,
working on that all the time. Yeah.
00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:27.330
A story I told somebody once about
how having someone in your family,
00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:30.780
and obviously my child is still
very small with her disabilities.
00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:33.930
And the challenges that you feel
you feel people are looking at you,
00:14:33.930 --> 00:14:37.410
you feel isolated.
And invariably the reason you
00:14:37.410 --> 00:14:40.980
don't see a lot of us out there
is because we we might very well
00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:44.340
feel exactly that isolated.
I don't feel welcome in this space,
00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:49.500
so I choose not to go out. Yeah.
But as as Zoey has gotten older
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:53.070
and as we have realized,
people need to see us out.
00:14:53.070 --> 00:14:57.540
People need to see us as a family.
People need to see us using spaces.
00:14:57.540 --> 00:15:00.030
Exactly to your point,
they need to see us.
00:15:00.300 --> 00:15:05.520
Um, I try my words so carefully, but
if I'm struggling in an environment,
00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:09.360
then step up and help me.
If you've experienced that with me,
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.480
you can see why it's important
to advocate going forward.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:17.910
Absolutely. Collaboration.
And I think I'm very fortunate that,
00:15:18.150 --> 00:15:23.670
um, as a former school teacher,
I was very happy to, um,
00:15:24.300 --> 00:15:28.620
pass on instructions to total
strangers and children.
00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:34.350
So from the time that Kelly could
started speaking and it was a little
00:15:34.470 --> 00:15:42.320
we we gave her framework on how
to interact with people because
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:47.600
right from the beginning, kids
particularly are kids are delightful.
00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:53.090
They need to know. So they are. Yeah.
And kids would come up to me all the
00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:56.120
time and say, what's wrong with her?
And I'd say, there's nothing wrong
00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.890
with her, but why don't you ask her?
And then we frame this conversation
00:16:00.890 --> 00:16:04.580
with Kaylee followed, saying,
there's nothing wrong with my legs.
00:16:04.670 --> 00:16:06.740
They just don't work the same
way they choose to.
00:16:06.740 --> 00:16:12.440
Yes, look a cool way in which I
now work and walk in inverted
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.830
commas in the script.
And an important thing that
00:16:15.830 --> 00:16:19.310
happens all the time.
The two words that we we often
00:16:19.310 --> 00:16:22.040
concepts we battle against all
the time.
00:16:22.430 --> 00:16:27.020
The one is wheelchair bound when
everybody says and that's that's
00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:30.560
sort of the go to descriptor.
She is wheelchair bound.
00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:34.250
And we say, no, no, no, no,
she is wheelchair empowered.
00:16:34.850 --> 00:16:37.970
If she didn't have a wheelchair,
she'd be homebound. Correct.
00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:43.700
So always trying to to get
people to see things positively.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.110
And then the other thing that we
always push against is the word
00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:51.770
normal. Yes.
Um, because you go to a normal
00:16:51.770 --> 00:16:57.020
school, does she have normal friends?
And, um, we just had it this weekend.
00:16:57.020 --> 00:17:01.100
We were we were in Bloemfontein.
Um, Kaylee and the running
00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:05.360
partner Schonfeld at the
marathon in bloom last Saturday.
00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:09.620
And this is very lovely, man.
Elderly man came and walked next
00:17:09.620 --> 00:17:12.110
to us and said to us, well,
you know what?
00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.310
When she meets her maker,
you don't have to worry because
00:17:16.310 --> 00:17:19.670
when she meets her maker,
she will be totally normal.
00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:23.540
And I had to actually just total
stranger say to him,
00:17:24.050 --> 00:17:29.420
she's totally normal right now and
in fact has accomplished a lot.
00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.290
But she is exactly.
If you want to use a religious
00:17:34.010 --> 00:17:37.610
reference,
this is the way she was made.
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:45.200
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, people.
Well, people can use those terms
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:50.660
so loosely and so frequently and
with the assumption of children
00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:54.770
being less than. Mhm.
So that is the main perception
00:17:54.770 --> 00:18:00.530
that I feel we need to
constantly do battle with.
00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:05.120
And sometimes it's ticking with
a feather and sometimes it's
00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:10.550
speaking because. I love that.
And let's, let's hope we don't have
00:18:10.550 --> 00:18:12.890
the beat with too many sticks and can
rather tickle with the feathers.
00:18:12.890 --> 00:18:16.790
And they get it quickly. Huh? Um, I.
Think sometimes, sometimes you
00:18:16.790 --> 00:18:19.070
have to be two thirds thick.
You know, you can.
00:18:19.070 --> 00:18:24.260
Only because there's a time for
for all of these actions.
00:18:24.260 --> 00:18:28.370
If you if if I go back to the the,
um, comrades marathon thing,
00:18:28.370 --> 00:18:32.480
we tickled with the Sabres for a
good few weeks, ran out of time,
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.440
and then we had to start,
you know, we had the legal papers
00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:39.110
and we had to actually threatened
that we had to be prophetic.
00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:41.270
Yeah, there's there's a lot of
work to be done.
00:18:41.270 --> 00:18:44.930
And I think you've definitely.
You've you've spearheaded the
00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.990
way forward.
Um, and again, congratulations on
00:18:47.990 --> 00:18:50.900
everything that the Kelly campaign
has achieved up until this point.
00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:53.720
And I believe it will continue
to do very much more.
00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:56.780
I will most certainly include
details in the show notes of this
00:18:56.780 --> 00:18:59.780
episode for people to find you.
But since I do have you on the phone,
00:18:59.780 --> 00:19:06.290
Zelda, what is the best thing that
people can do to support those,
00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.160
uh, that are in predicaments
that we're dealing with through
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.490
the Kelly campaign or adjacent
to the Kelly campaign?
00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.950
What would you suggest to them?
Oh, well, I think just in everyday
00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:26.540
interaction, the thing that, um,
separates non-disabled communities
00:19:26.540 --> 00:19:32.930
from disabled people is fear.
The fear of not being understood.
00:19:32.930 --> 00:19:36.830
The fear of being embarrassed.
The fear of catching something, you
00:19:36.830 --> 00:19:42.620
know, all of those unspoken fears.
And my, my encouragement would
00:19:42.620 --> 00:19:49.160
be when you see somebody who is
different to you. Do not be fearful.
00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:53.630
Just how would you treat any other
person? You go up and you treat.
00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:58.160
You speak to that person in the
wheelchair as a person because
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:02.210
that's what they are.
So do not make let your own fears
00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:11.780
of um not being up to the task
or not knowing how to respond.
00:20:12.050 --> 00:20:15.980
Be brave,
get into or get out of your comfort
00:20:15.980 --> 00:20:21.650
zone and allow an interaction.
Encourage an interaction with
00:20:21.650 --> 00:20:26.990
somebody who is not like you in
order for you to grow.
00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:29.930
Because so often people feel,
you know,
00:20:29.930 --> 00:20:34.400
I'm doing a favor to this person,
I'm going to push them in this race.
00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:37.660
I'm going to volunteer my time
to school.
00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:44.890
And the biggest takeaway ever.
And it's always the case is when
00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:50.950
I'm doing something that I think
is a good thing for somebody else,
00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:55.270
and I spend my time doing it.
I am always the winner.
00:20:56.140 --> 00:20:59.530
So, you know,
we feel that we've always felt
00:20:59.530 --> 00:21:05.170
that we needed to foist Kaylee
on other people with gay abandon
00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:11.860
because they were the lucky ones.
People who meet our children,
00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:15.400
people who meet our friends who
are disabled.
00:21:16.090 --> 00:21:18.910
Um, they are the lucky ones
because they are the ones who
00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:22.690
are gaining something special.
They're learning lessons that
00:21:22.690 --> 00:21:26.710
they can learn nowhere else,
and it's enriching their lives.
00:21:27.730 --> 00:21:32.320
And I think just just before us,
what's on my mind?
00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:37.840
I'm sure Katie has also mentioned to
you that we're very intentional in
00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:44.770
using, um, identity first language as
opposed to people first language.
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:52.510
Um, with the acknowledged red
speaking or the generally accepted
00:21:52.510 --> 00:21:57.430
way speaking is saying I'm a person
with a disability because there
00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:01.960
was that whole movement around.
People first see me before you
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.620
see my wheelchair.
And that's where the nothing about
00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:11.290
us without us also grew out of.
But a more modern, um, movement
00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:17.890
is to claim disability pride.
Because when you say I'm a person
00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:21.220
with a disability and you put
disability on the backburner,
00:22:21.610 --> 00:22:25.630
there's almost an implication of
don't see my disability,
00:22:25.630 --> 00:22:32.710
see me as a person.
And disability does define Way
00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:35.920
in which you deserve.
You know, when people say
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.360
disability doesn't define me,
Keisha Kelly kicks against that
00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:45.880
all the time. It does define me.
My disability defines what I do
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.660
with every minute of my day.
And as a result,
00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:56.260
I need to have pride in my
disability as part of my identity.
00:22:56.650 --> 00:23:01.390
So we we don't say person with a
disability,
00:23:01.390 --> 00:23:07.600
we say disabled person purposefully
because we claiming the disabled
00:23:07.600 --> 00:23:12.760
tag as something to be proud of.
I hear you and back to what you
00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:16.090
were saying as well about, uh,
being fearful maybe of an
00:23:16.090 --> 00:23:20.920
interaction with a disabled person.
I can say wholeheartedly that our
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:25.480
friends that interact with my child
who has who is disabled, always come
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:30.130
away feeling that much more enriched.
Uh, so there's definitely something
00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:33.580
that they're gaining by doing so,
by stepping out of their comfort
00:23:33.580 --> 00:23:37.180
zone and embracing, you know,
whatever that fear that they may
00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:39.880
think they have.
Stepping beyond that goes goes a
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.420
long way for them and for those
around them and exactly what we're
00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:46.720
looking for, right, with the Kelly
campaign. So thank you, Zelda.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.570
Is there anything else you want
to say before I, before I let
00:23:49.570 --> 00:23:53.110
you go back to your very busy
day of being a CEO and managing
00:23:53.110 --> 00:23:58.780
all sorts of various entities.
You know, I just feel a need to
00:23:58.780 --> 00:24:04.480
finish on one quote that was coined
by one of our founders when she was
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:12.310
six years old, Chelsea Kerry, um,
spoke about how inclusion can't
00:24:12.310 --> 00:24:18.340
be learned. It has to be lived.
And that's kind of become one of
00:24:18.340 --> 00:24:22.960
our really calls.
Um, inclusion can't be learned.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.290
It has to be lived.
And I think that is central to
00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:30.420
all the work that we do.
When was with the relationships,
00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:34.560
the conversations,
the opportunities, um,
00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:40.410
seeing challenges as opportunities.
It's all about interconnectedness
00:24:40.410 --> 00:24:45.780
and inviting other people along for
the journey with us so that they
00:24:45.780 --> 00:24:50.490
can to learn the magic of what it's
like to have every member of your
00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:57.390
community seen, heard, and truly
appreciated. Such a great quote.
00:24:57.510 --> 00:24:59.970
Perfection. Yeah, lovely.
Zelda,
00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.610
thank you so much for your time.
Um, this has been really lovely.
00:25:02.610 --> 00:25:05.130
And again, I'm sorry I couldn't
visit, but hopefully in the near
00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:07.320
future I can pop around for a
coffee or something and.
00:25:07.320 --> 00:25:10.170
We look forward to that.
We look forward to that and we look
00:25:10.170 --> 00:25:13.200
forward to meeting Zoe as well.
Yes, we must make that happen.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.680
Yes, let's do it. Thanks, Sean.
Have a good one. Thanks, Zelda.
00:25:16.710 --> 00:25:23.700
Okay. Bye bye.
Thank you for listening to this
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:26.850
episode of Something Shifted.
We make this show as a labor of love.
00:25:26.850 --> 00:25:29.700
And because we believe stories
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00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:31.170
It's just what the world needs
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00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.930
We'd really love it if you would
share this episode and be part of
00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.890
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shift and start the week off right
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Two things for your body and one
thing for your soul.
00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:01.800
Every second Sunday.
Plus, you'll automatically go into
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To all of the links to all of
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are in the show notes.
Big thanks, as always to my executive
00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:16.440
producer, Rhonda, and of course to
you for believing in possibility.
00:26:16.860 --> 00:26:22.980
My name is Shawn and this is
something shifted by.
